Same focal length. Same max aperture. Very different intent.
The 85mm f/1.8GD vs 85mm f/1.8G comparison is way more interesting than people thinkβthis isnβt just βolder vs newer,β itβs two different philosophies of portrait lenses.
1. Design Philosophy (This Is the Core Difference)
85mm f/1.8D
Designed in the film-era mindset
Optimized for:
Speed
Compactness
High micro-contrast
Assumes the photographer:
Focuses manually with intent
Accepts character over perfection
π The D lens does not apologize for optical flaws. It uses them.
85mm f/1.8G
Designed in the digital-era mindset
Optimized for:
Resolution
Smoothness
Consistency across the frame
Assumes:
High-resolution sensors
Autofocus accuracy matters
Images will be scrutinized at 100%
π The G lens is corrective and controlled.
2. Optical Performance
Sharpness
Aperture
85mm f/1.8D
85mm f/1.8G
f/1.8
Sharp center, soft edges
Sharper center, cleaner edges
f/2.8
Very sharp
Extremely sharp
f/4β5.6
Excellent
Clinically excellent
The G is objectively sharper, especially wide open and toward the edges.
The D has biteβcenter sharpness with strong micro-contrast that feels punchy, especially on faces.
π On modern high-MP sensors, the G holds together better technically.
Contrast & Rendering
D lens
Higher micro-contrast
Harder transitions
More βsnapβ
Faces look more sculpted, sometimes harsher
G lens
Smoother tonal roll-off
Lower micro-contrast
More forgiving on skin
Easier to grade in post
π This is why some people say the D looks β3Dβ and the G looks βcreamy.β
3. Bokeh & Out-of-Focus Rendering
85mm f/1.8D
Nervous bokeh in busy backgrounds
Catβs-eye shapes near edges
Double lines in specular highlights
Can feel edgy or distracting
β οΈ Not a βsafeβ bokeh lens.
85mm f/1.8G
Significantly smoother background blur
More rounded aperture blades
Better correction of spherical aberration
Backgrounds dissolve rather than vibrate
π For environmental portraits or street portraits, the G is far more predictable.
4. Autofocus & Handling
Autofocus
D: Screw-drive AF
Fast on pro bodies
Noisy
Inaccurate at f/1.8
G: Silent Wave Motor (AF-S)
Quieter
More accurate
Better for modern DSLRs
If youβre shooting moving subjects or candid portraits, the G wins decisively.
Build & Ergonomics
Aspect
1.8D
1.8G
Size
Smaller
Larger
Weight
Lighter
Heavier
Build
Solid, simple
Modern composite
Focus ring
Better manual feel
Adequate, not special
The D feels mechanical. The G feels engineered.
5. Compatibility & Practical Reality
85mm f/1.8D
β No AF on entry-level Nikon bodies
βοΈ Excellent on D700, D3, D4, Df
βοΈ Gorgeous on film bodies
βοΈ Very cheap on the used market
85mm f/1.8G
βοΈ Full AF on all Nikon DSLRs
βοΈ Designed for high-resolution sensors
βοΈ Better resale value
β Less character
6. Character vs Control (The Honest Take)
Choose the 85mm f/1.8D if:
You value rendering over perfection
You shoot:
Street portraits
Gritty documentary
Black & white
You like lenses that argue back
You enjoy working around flaws
π This lens has teeth.
Choose the 85mm f/1.8G if:
You need:
Reliable AF
Smooth skin tones
Predictable results
You shoot:
Editorial portraits
Commercial work
Color-heavy projects
You want files that are easy to finish in post
π This lens is quietly competent.
7. One-Line Verdict (Brutally Honest)
85mm f/1.8D: A portrait lens with attitude and consequences.
85mm f/1.8G: A portrait lens that stays out of the way.
If youβre starting photography, focus first on mastering your cameraβs basic settings (aperture, shutter speed, ISO) and composition techniques like the rule of thirds. Begin with natural light, practice often, and donβt worry about expensive gearβskill matters more than equipment.
Learning your camera and reading its manual is one of the most underrated but powerful steps in photography. Hereβs how to approach it so it feels less like homework and more like unlocking a secret language:
π How to Learn Your Camera (Manual Included)
Treat the Manual as a Map
Donβt read it cover to coverβskim it like a guidebook.
Flag sections on exposure modes, focus systems, and custom settings.
Keep it nearby when practicing; itβs a reference, not a novel.
Break Down Features One at a Time
Day 1: Aperture controls β practice depth of field.
Day 2: Shutter speed β freeze vs blur motion.
Day 3: ISO β noise vs brightness.
Day 4: Autofocus modes β single, continuous, manual.
Day 5: Metering modes β spot, center-weighted, evaluative.
Use the Manual to Decode Symbols
Those cryptic icons (sun, mountain, flower) suddenly make sense when explained.
Learn what each button doesβno more guessing mid-shoot.
Practice With Purpose
Pick one feature from the manual, then shoot only with that in mind.
Example: After reading about exposure compensation, spend an hour adjusting Β±EV in different light.
Build Muscle Memory
Reading tells you what the button does.
Practice tells you where it is without looking.
The goal: operate your camera like an extension of your hand.
Keep Notes
Jot down quirks: βMy camera underexposes in backlightβcompensate +1 EV.β
Over time, youβll build your own personal manual thatβs more useful than the factory one.
π§ Philosophy
Would you like me to design a stepβbyβstep βmanual study planβ (like a 7βday routine) so you can systematically learn your camera without overwhelm?
Buying expensive gear too earlyβskills matter more than equipment.
Would you like me to create a step-by-step 30βday beginner photography challenge so you can practice these skills systematically?
πΈ 30-Day Beginner Photography Challenge Week 1: Getting Comfortable with Your Camera
Day 1: Take 10 photos of everyday objects in auto mode.
Day 2: Experiment with apertureβshoot the same subject at f/2.8, f/5.6, and f/11.
Day 3: Practice shutter speedβcapture a moving subject at 1/30s, 1/250s, and 1/1000s.
Day 4: Adjust ISOβshoot indoors at ISO 100, 800, and 1600.
Day 5: Learn the rule of thirdsβphotograph a subject off-center.
Day 6: Try symmetryβfind reflections or balanced patterns.
Day 7: Review your weekβs shots and note what you liked most.
Week 2: Exploring Light
Day 8: Shoot during golden hour (sunrise or sunset).
Day 9: Capture shadows at midday.
Day 10: Use window light for a portrait.
Day 11: Experiment with backlightingβsubject in front of the sun or lamp.
Day 12: Try night photographyβstreetlights, neon signs, or stars.
Day 13: Use artificial light (lamp, flashlight) creatively.
Day 14: Compare natural vs artificial lighting in similar shots.
Week 3: Composition & Creativity
Day 15: Use leading lines (roads, fences, paths).
Day 16: Frame your subject (shoot through doors, arches, foliage).
Day 17: Capture patterns or textures.
Day 18: Shoot from a low angle.
Day 19: Shoot from a high angle.
Day 20: Try minimalismβone subject against a clean background.
Day 21: Capture candid street photography (respect privacy).
Week 4: Storytelling & Editing
Day 22: Take a series of 3 photos that tell a story.
Day 23: Capture emotion in a portrait.
Day 24: Photograph movement (sports, dancing, traffic).
Day 25: Try black-and-white photography.
Day 26: Edit your photos using free apps (Snapseed, Lightroom Mobile).
Day 27: Re-shoot one of your earlier challenges with improved technique.
Day 28: Create a photo essay of 5 images on a theme (e.g., βMorning Routineβ).
Day 29: Share your best photo with friends or online for feedback.
Day 30: Reflectβcompare Day 1 vs Day 30 shots and note your progress.
π By the end of this challenge, youβll have practiced technical skills, creative composition, and storytellingβthe three pillars of photography.
π― Photography Technical Drills (One Setting at a Time) Aperture (Depth of Field)
Drill 1: Place a subject (like a coffee mug) on a table.
Shoot at f/2.8 β background blurry.
Shoot at f/8 β background sharper.
Shoot at f/16 β everything sharp.
Goal: Notice how aperture changes background separation and focus.
Shutter Speed (Motion Control)
Drill 2: Photograph moving water (fountain, sink, or river).
Shoot at 1/1000s β water frozen.
Shoot at 1/60s β slight blur.
Shoot at 1/5s β silky smooth trails.
Goal: See how shutter speed controls motion blur.
ISO (Light Sensitivity)
Drill 3: Shoot indoors with steady lighting.
ISO 100 β clean, dark image.
ISO 800 β brighter, slight grain.
ISO 3200 β very bright, noticeable noise.
Goal: Understand trade-off between brightness and image quality.
Focus Modes
Drill 4: Switch between manual focus and auto focus.
Photograph a subject with cluttered background.
Try locking focus on the subject manually, then let auto focus decide.
Goal: Learn when to trust auto focus vs. manual control.
White Balance
Drill 5: Shoot the same subject under warm indoor light.
Use Auto WB β camera guesses.
Use Tungsten WB β cooler correction.
Use Daylight WB β warmer tones.
Goal: See how WB changes color temperature.
Exposure Compensation
Drill 6: In aperture priority mode, photograph a bright scene.
Set -1 EV β darker image.
Set 0 EV β normal exposure.
Set +1 EV β brighter image.
Goal: Learn how to quickly adjust exposure without full manual mode.
π Each drill should be repeated with the same subject and lighting so you can isolate the effect of that one setting.
Photography Technical Drills (One Setting at a Time) Aperture (Depth of Field)
Drill 1: Place a subject (like a coffee mug) on a table.
Shoot at f/2.8 β background blurry.
Shoot at f/8 β background sharper.
Shoot at f/16 β everything sharp.
Goal: Notice how aperture changes background separation and focus.
Shutter Speed (Motion Control)
Drill 2: Photograph moving water (fountain, sink, or river).
Shoot at 1/1000s β water frozen.
Shoot at 1/60s β slight blur.
Shoot at 1/5s β silky smooth trails.
Goal: See how shutter speed controls motion blur.
ISO (Light Sensitivity)
Drill 3: Shoot indoors with steady lighting.
ISO 100 β clean, dark image.
ISO 800 β brighter, slight grain.
ISO 3200 β very bright, noticeable noise.
Goal: Understand trade-off between brightness and image quality.
Focus Modes
Drill 4: Switch between manual focus and auto focus.
Photograph a subject with cluttered background.
Try locking focus on the subject manually, then let auto focus decide.
Goal: Learn when to trust auto focus vs. manual control.
White Balance
Drill 5: Shoot the same subject under warm indoor light.
Use Auto WB β camera guesses.
Use Tungsten WB β cooler correction.
Use Daylight WB β warmer tones.
Goal: See how WB changes color temperature.
Exposure Compensation
Drill 6: In aperture priority mode, photograph a bright scene.
Set -1 EV β darker image.
Set 0 EV β normal exposure.
Set +1 EV β brighter image.
Goal: Learn how to quickly adjust exposure without full manual mode.
π Each drill should be repeated with the same subject and lighting so you can isolate the effect of that one setting.
Photographers donβt just βlookββthey see differently. Their vision is trained to notice light, shapes, and stories in everyday scenes. Hereβs how they develop that way of seeing:
ποΈ How Photographers See the World
Light First
They notice how light falls on a subjectβsoft vs harsh, warm vs cool.
Shadows, highlights, and reflections become part of the composition.
A photographer might walk into a room and immediately think: βThat window light is perfect for a portrait.β
Composition Everywhere
They frame scenes instinctivelyβusing the rule of thirds, leading lines, or symmetry.
Even without a camera, they imagine how a moment would look cropped in a rectangle.
Everyday objects (a coffee cup, a street sign) become potential subjects.
Details Others Miss
Textures, patterns, and contrasts stand out.
They notice how colors interactβlike a red umbrella against a grey sky.
Small gestures or fleeting expressions become the heart of an image.
Storytelling Mindset
Photographers see beyond objectsβthey look for meaning.
A single image can suggest mood, emotion, or narrative.
Example: A childβs shoes by the door might tell a story of play, rest, or anticipation.
Constant Awareness
Theyβre always scanningβanticipating moments before they happen.
Street photographers, for instance, watch body language and predict interactions.
Nature photographers notice subtle changes in clouds, wind, or animal behavior.
π§ Training Yourself to See Like a Photographer
Slow down: Pause before snappingβask, βWhatβs the light doing here?β
Frame with your eyes: Pretend your hands are a viewfinder and crop the world.
Practice mindfulness: Notice colors, shadows, and shapes in daily life.
Shoot intentionally: Donβt just captureβdecide why youβre taking the photo.
π In short: photographers see light, composition, and story where others just see objects.
For street photographyβespecially when photographing peopleβyou want settings that balance speed, flexibility, and discretion. Hereβs a streetβready setup most photographers rely on:
πΆ Street-Ready Camera Settings for People
Mode
Aperture Priority (A/Av): Lets you control depth of field while the camera adjusts shutter speed.
Manual Mode: If youβre confident, set both aperture and shutter speed for consistency.
Aperture
f/5.6 β f/8: Keeps subjects sharp while allowing some background context.
Wide apertures (f/2.8) isolate subjects, but risk missing focus in fast-moving scenes.
Shutter Speed
1/250s or faster: Freezes walking motion.
1/500s+: Essential for cyclists, runners, or quick gestures.
ISO
Auto ISO with a cap (e.g., 3200): Keeps exposure balanced as light changes quickly on the street.
Lens Choice: 35mm or 50mm prime lenses are classicsβnatural perspective, fast aperture, compact size.
β‘ Quick Street Setup (Daylight)
Mode: Aperture Priority
Aperture: f/5.6
Shutter Speed: 1/250s (minimum)
ISO: Auto (cap at 1600β3200)
Focus: AF-C, zone focus
WB: Auto
π This setup gives you sharp subjects, contextual backgrounds, and flexibility for unpredictable street moments.
Bokeh is the aesthetic quality of the outβofβfocus areas in a photo, usually seen as soft, creamy background blur that makes the subject stand out. It comes from the Japanese word βboke,β meaning βblur,β and depends on lens design, aperture, and distance.
π What Bokeh Really Is
Definition: Bokeh refers to how the lens renders outβofβfocus points of light, not just blur itself.
Origin: From Japanese βbokeβ (γγ±), meaning βblurβ or βhaze.β
Appearance: Often seen as round or hexagonal highlights in the background, especially when shooting wide open.
Focal Length: Longer lenses (85mm, 135mm) produce more pronounced bokeh.
β¨ Good vs. Bad Bokeh
Good Bokeh: Smooth, creamy, pleasing blur that isolates the subject.
Bad Bokeh: Harsh, distracting shapes or nervous edges that compete with the subject.
Example: A portrait with soft circular highlights behind the subject = good bokeh. Jagged or polygonal highlights = less pleasing.
π· How to Achieve Bokeh
Use a fast lens (e.g., 50mm f/1.8 or 85mm f/1.4).
Shoot wide open (lowest fβstop).
Get close to your subject while keeping the background far away.
Include point light sources (fairy lights, street lamps) for visible bokeh balls.
π¨ Creative Uses
Portraits: Isolate faces against dreamy backgrounds.
Street Photography: Neon signs and traffic lights become artistic bokeh.
Nature: Flowers or leaves blurred into soft color washes.
β οΈ Things to Watch Out For
Overdoing bokeh can make images look gimmicky.
Cheap lenses may produce βbusyβ or distracting bokeh.
Not all situations benefitβsometimes context in the background is important.
π In short: bokeh is about the quality of blur, not just the amount. Itβs a creative tool to direct attention and add atmosphere.
Exposure mistakes are some of the most common frustrations for beginnersβand the good news is, your camera tells you when youβve made them if you know how to read the signs. Letβs break it down:
β Common Exposure Mistakes (and How to Read Them)
Overexposure (Too Bright)
Symptoms in the photo: Washedβout highlights, white skies with no detail, pale skin tones.
Histogram clue: Graph bunched up on the right side.
Fix: Lower ISO, use faster shutter speed, or stop down aperture (higher fβnumber).
Underexposure (Too Dark)
Symptoms in the photo: Loss of shadow detail, muddy blacks, subjects hard to see.
Histogram clue: Graph bunched up on the left side.
Fix: Raise ISO, slow down shutter speed, or open aperture (lower fβnumber).
Blown Highlights
Symptoms: Bright areas (like clouds or reflections) turn pure white with no texture.
Histogram clue: Spike at the far right edge.
Fix: Use exposure compensation (-EV), or meter for the highlights.
Crushed Shadows
Symptoms: Dark areas lose detail, becoming solid black.
Histogram clue: Spike at the far left edge.
Fix: Increase exposure slightly (+EV), or use fill light/reflectors.
Mixed Lighting Confusion
Symptoms: Correct exposure in one part, but another part is too bright/dark.
Histogram clue: Spread across both ends, with gaps in the middle.
Fix: Spot meter on your subject, or bracket exposures.
Relying Only on the LCD
Mistake: Judging exposure by how the photo looks on the screen (which can be misleading in bright sunlight).
Better: Always check the histogramβitβs the most reliable exposure reading.
π Quick Reading Drill
Take a photo in bright daylight β check histogram (likely rightβheavy).
Take a photo indoors with no flash β check histogram (likely leftβheavy).
Adjust one setting at a time until the histogram is balanced (spread across the middle without clipping at edges).
π Exposure isnβt about βperfect brightnessββitβs about controlling detail in highlights and shadows. Once you learn to read the histogram, youβll stop guessing and start shooting with confidence.
Exposure mistakes happen when one part of the exposure triangle (aperture, shutter speed, ISO) is set without balancing the othersβor when the cameraβs meter is misled by tricky lighting. Letβs break down the most common errors and why they occur:
π§ͺ Exposure Mistakes and Why They Happen
Overexposure (Too Bright)
Why it happens:
Aperture too wide (f/1.8 in bright daylight).
Shutter speed too slow (1/30s outdoors).
ISO too high (ISO 1600 in sunlight).
Meter fooled by dark subjects (camera brightens too much).
Result: Washedβout highlights, white skies, pale skin tones.
Underexposure (Too Dark)
Why it happens:
Aperture too narrow (f/16 indoors).
Shutter speed too fast (1/1000s at night).
ISO too low (ISO 100 in dim light).
Meter fooled by bright subjects (camera darkens too much).
Result: Muddy shadows, loss of detail, subjects hard to see.
Blown Highlights
Why it happens:
Bright areas (clouds, reflections, neon lights) exceed sensorβs dynamic range.
Camera exposes for shadows, sacrificing highlight detail.
Result: Pure white patches with no texture.
Crushed Shadows
Why it happens:
Dark areas fall below sensorβs dynamic range.
Camera exposes for highlights, sacrificing shadow detail.
Result: Solid black areas with no recoverable detail.
Mixed Lighting Errors
Why it happens:
Scene has extreme contrast (bright window + dark room).
Meter averages exposure, leaving both highlights and shadows compromised.
Result: One part of the image looks fine, the other is unusable.
Trusting the LCD Instead of the Histogram
Why it happens:
LCD brightness varies depending on environment.
In sunlight, photos look darker than they are; indoors, brighter.
Result: Misjudged exposure decisions.
π How to Read Exposure Mistakes
Histogram:
Bunched left = underexposed.
Bunched right = overexposed.
Spikes at edges = clipping (lost detail).
Light Meter:
Needle left = too dark.
Needle right = too bright.
Centered = balanced exposure (though not always βperfectβ artistically).
π In short: exposure mistakes happen when light, subject, and settings arenβt balanced. The histogram is your best truthβtellerβit shows whether youβre losing detail in highlights or shadows.
Pairing the Nikon D700 with the right lens is one of the reasons this body still shines.
πΈ Itβs a full-frame (FX) camera with great low-light ability and rugged handling, so certain lenses really unlock its potential for street, portrait, travel, and everyday shooting.
Hereβs a practical guide to the best lenses you can use with a D700 β ranked by use case and value, including price/quality balance.
π― 1. Street & Everyday β All-Around Winners
Nikon 35mm f/1.8G AF-S
π Best overall everyday lens
Field of view: Classic documentary/street framing
Fast in low light, great subject isolation
Compact and quiet AF
π‘ Why it works 35mm on full-frame gives context with subject focus, perfect for street scenes and daily shooting.
π Great for:
Street photography
Urban context + people
Travel
Nikon 50mm f/1.8G AF-S
π Best all-purpose normal lens
Natural perspective (very βfilmicβ)
Sharp for portraits and general use
Affordable pro-quality option
π‘ Why itβs great If you want one lens that does portraits and everyday shoots, this is a classic. On the D700 it feels perfect.
π‘ Why youβll love it Rich, creamy bokeh and excellent sharpness make this a staple for portraits and even street portraiture from a modest distance.
π Great for:
Portraits
Street portraits
Events
π 3. Wide Angles β Environment & Context
Nikon 24mm f/1.8G AF-S
π Best wide angle prime
Great for environmental street and documentary work
Very usable in low light
Minimal distortion compared to zooms
π‘ Why choose 24mm You get immersive perspective without serious barrel distortion. Great indoors or on crowded streets.
π Great for:
Architecture + documentary
Wider street scenes
Travel landscapes
π· 4. Zoom Lenses β Flexibility Without Sacrifice
Nikon 24-70mm f/2.8G ED AF-S
π Verified pro zoom workhorse
Excellent range for all-around shooting
Strong low-light capability
Classic pro build
π‘ Consider this if you want one lens to rule many situations β from wide stories to portraits.
π Great for:
Events
Run-and-gun photojournalism
Travel where you canβt change lenses often
Nikon 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR II
π Best telephoto zoom for portraits/sports/isolated subjects
Tight framing without cropping in
Beautiful compression
Fast and tack-sharp
π‘ A D700 + 70-200 f/2.8 is a workhorse combo if you shoot concerts, sports, or candid portraits.
π Great for:
Tight portraits
Sports or action
Wildlife at moderate distance
πΈ 5. Best Budget (& Used) Options That Punch Above Their Price
If you want great glass without spending a fortune:
πΉ Nikon 50mm f/1.8D β older normal lens; excellent sharpness and cheap πΉ Nikon 85mm f/1.8D β gorgeous portrait lens at used prices πΉ Nikon 24mm f/2.8D β a little slower but very sharp and compact πΉ Tokina 17-35mm f/4 AT-X β great wide option on a budget
TIP: D-series lenses can still autofocus on the D700 and are often dramatically cheaper used.
β FX (full-frame) coverage β they use the sensorβs best area β Fast apertures β perfect for the D700βs excellent low-light strength β Sharp optics that match the sensorβs output β Built for durability β like the D700 itself
Older is not dated when the glass is this good.
π‘ Final Thoughts
If you want one lens that defines the D700 experience: π 35mm f/1.8G
If you want one thatβs the most versatile and satisfying overall: π 50mm f/1.8G
If you want beautiful subject isolation: π 85mm f/1.8G
And if you want one lens that does everything: π 24-70mm f/2.8G
The Nikon D700 came out in 2008. By tech standards, thatβs ancient. By photography standards? Itβs still very much alive.
And there are solid reasons for that.
π§ 1. Image Quality Plateaued (a Long Time Ago)
This is the dirty secret of camera marketing:
For most real-world photography, image quality stopped dramatically improving around 2012β2014.
The D700βs:
12.1MP full-frame sensor
Legendary low-light performance
Gorgeous tonal roll-off
β¦already exceed what:
Social media
Editorial print
Street photography
Photo books
actually require. More megapixels β better photos.
π 2. CCD-Like βLookβ (Even Though Itβs CMOS)
The D700 shares DNA with the D3, and it shows.
People keep using it because of:
Natural contrast
Smooth highlights
Film-like shadow transitions
Skin tones that donβt need fixing
It renders scenes, not files.
Modern sensors are technically better β but often clinically flat until processed.
π§± 3. Built Like a Weapon (In a Good Way)
The D700 is:
Magnesium alloy
Weather-sealed
Rated for heavy professional use
You can:
Shoot in rain
Bang it on concrete
Freeze your fingers off
β¦and it just keeps going.
Street photographers love tools they donβt have to baby.
π― 4. Autofocus That Still Slaps
The Multi-CAM 3500FX AF system is still:
Fast
Predictable
Excellent in low light
No face-detect. No eye-AF. No nonsense.
Just reliable center-point focus you can trust.
For street, that matters more than AI tricks.
π°οΈ 5. Forces Better Shooting Habits
Limitations can be freeing.
With the D700:
Youβre not chimping constantly
Youβre not spraying 20fps
Youβre not rescuing sloppy exposure later
You:
Pre-focus
Anticipate
Compose deliberately
Thatβs street photography DNA.
πΈ 6. Ridiculously Affordable Now
Hereβs the killer argument:
Camera
Real-world value
Nikon D700
~$350β500
New full-frame body
$2,000β4,000
For the price of a kit zoom on a mirrorless body, you get:
Pro build
Full-frame look
Files editors still accept
Itβs one of the best cost-to-image-quality ratios ever made.
𧬠7. F-Mount Glass Is a Goldmine
F-mount gives you:
Decades of legendary primes
Cheap used prices
Mechanical reliability
And the D700 drives them beautifully.
π§ The Quiet Truth
People who keep shooting the D700 arenβt behind.
Theyβre done chasing.
Theyβve realized:
Cameras donβt make photos
Familiarity beats features
Confidence beats resolution
The D700 disappears in your hands β and thatβs the highest compliment a camera can get.
π Who the D700 Is Still Perfect For
β Street photographers β Documentary shooters β Low-light natural light work β Black & white photography β Photographers who value feel over specs
π§ Final Thought
Old cameras become timeless when they stop getting in the way.
The Nikon D700 didnβt age poorly. It aged honestly.
The Tokina ATβX 24β70mm f/2.8 PRO FX is a lens built for real work: fast aperture, proβgrade construction, and optical performance designed to compete with Nikonβs own 24β70mm f/2.8 offerings. Reviews describe it as a βtop performerβ with solid build quality, ultrasonic autofocus, and a design aimed squarely at professional photographers.
Pairing this modern, heavyβduty zoom with the Nikon D2Hs β a rugged 2004 flagship with a 4.1βmegapixel APSβH sensor β creates a fascinating hybrid: oldβschool speed and ergonomics combined with contemporary optical muscle.
This article explores how the two work together, what to expect, and why this pairing still makes sense today.
π 1. The Lens: Tokina ATβX 24β70mm f/2.8 PRO FX
A ProβGrade Workhorse
Tokina designed this lens to compete directly with Nikonβs 24β70mm f/2.8. According to DXOMARK, it offers:
Fast f/2.8 constant aperture
Ultrasonic autofocus motor
Solid, proβlevel build quality
A versatile focal range ideal for weddings, events, portraits, and press work
This is not a budget lens pretending to be pro. Itβs a serious optic built for demanding shooters.
Optical Performance
Reviews highlight:
Excellent sharpness across the zoom range
Strong contrast
Good control of chromatic aberration
A rendering style similar to older Nikon pro zooms
The Tokina has a slightly punchy, highβcontrast look that pairs well with Nikonβs colour science.
π 2. The Camera: Nikon D2Hs
The D2Hs is a camera built for speed and reliability:
4.1 MP APSβH (1.5Γ crop) sensor
8 fps continuous shooting
Proβgrade AF module
Legendary Nikon ergonomics
Tankβlike build
While the resolution is low by modern standards, the files are clean, fast, and have a distinctive βNikon pro DSLRβ look β crisp, filmβlike, and extremely responsive.
The D2Hs was designed for photojournalists who needed speed and accuracy above all else.
π 3. How the Tokina 24β70mm Performs on the D2Hs
Field of View
Because the D2Hs uses a 1.5Γ crop sensor:
24mm β ~36mm
70mm β ~105mm
This turns the Tokina into a 36β105mm equivalent, which is a superb range for:
Street
Portraits
Events
Documentary work
You lose some width, but gain a tighter, more intimate midβtelephoto end.
Autofocus
The Tokinaβs ultrasonic motor pairs well with the D2Hsβs pro AF module:
Fast acquisition
Confident tracking
Good lowβlight performance
The D2Hs was built for speed, and the Tokina keeps up.
Sharpness & Rendering
The Tokinaβs modern optics help the D2Hs punch above its resolution:
Images look crisp and clean
Strong contrast complements the D2Hsβs colour output
The f/2.8 aperture helps isolate subjects even on a 4MP sensor
The combination produces files with a classic, photojournalistic feel β sharp where it counts, with smooth tonal transitions.
LowβLight Performance
The D2Hs is not a highβISO monster, but the Tokinaβs f/2.8 aperture helps keep ISO down. Expect:
ISO 800: clean
ISO 1600: usable
ISO 3200: gritty but atmospheric
The lens helps the camera stay in its comfort zone.
π 4. Practical Use Cases
Street Photography
The 36β105mm equivalent range is perfect for:
Candid portraits
Environmental scenes
Urban details
The D2Hsβs fast AF and responsive shutter make it ideal for decisiveβmoment shooting.
Portraits
At the long end, the Tokina behaves like a 105mm lens:
Flattering compression
Smooth background blur
Strong subject separation
The D2Hsβs colour and tonal rendering give portraits a timeless look.
Events & Documentary
This is where the combo shines:
Fast AF
Rugged build
Reliable exposure
Clean files at low ISO
The Tokinaβs versatility matches the D2Hsβs speed.
π 5. Strengths & Limitations of the Combo
Strengths
Proβgrade build on both lens and body
Fast, reliable autofocus
Excellent contrast and sharpness from the Tokina
Classic Nikon colour from the D2Hs
Great handling balance
Affordable used prices
Limitations
D2Hs resolution limits cropping
HighβISO performance is dated
Tokina is heavy β the combo is substantial
No VR (but the D2Hs shutter is very stable)
π Conclusion: OldβSchool Speed Meets Modern Optics
The Tokina 24β70mm f/2.8 PRO FX on the Nikon D2Hs is a pairing that defies expectations. On paper, itβs a modern pro zoom mounted to a 2004 flagship with a 4MP sensor. In practice, itβs a fast, responsive, characterβrich setup that feels built for realβworld photography.
The Tokina brings:
modern sharpness
strong contrast
fast AF
proβgrade construction
The D2Hs brings:
unmatched handling
a beautiful, filmβlike sensor
speed and reliability
a shooting experience that feels alive
Together, they create images with a look thatβs both classic and contemporary β crisp, clean, and full of presence.
If you enjoy the tactile, intentional feel of older Nikon pro bodies but want the optical performance of a modern f/2.8 zoom, this combination is not just usable β itβs inspiring.
Itβs a combination that rewards intentional shooting. You canβt rely on cropping or highβISO rescue; you have to frame carefully, expose thoughtfully, and embrace the distinctive look that results. Thatβs why it demands thought β and why it can be so satisfying.
In an era dominated by mirrorless systems and everβincreasing megapixel counts, itβs easy to forget that some older DSLRs still hold their ground with surprising authority. The Canon EOSβ1D Mark IV, released in 2009, is one of those cameras β a machine built for speed, reliability, and professional endurance. Though more than a decade old, it remains a compelling choice for photographers who value ruggedness, responsiveness, and the unmistakable feel of a flagship DSLR.
Pair it with classic Canon primes like the EF 50mm f/1.4 USM and EF 85mm f/1.8 USM, and you have a kit that still delivers beautiful, characterβrich images in 2026.
This is a look at why the 1D Mark IV still matters β and why these two primes complement it so well.
π§± 1. The Canon 1D Mark IV: A Flagship Built to Last
The 1D Mark IV was Canonβs answer to the demands of sports, wildlife, and photojournalism in the late 2000s. It arrived with a clear mission: speed, accuracy, and reliability above all else.
Key Specs
16.1 MP APSβH sensor (1.3x crop)
10 frames per second continuous shooting
45βpoint AF system with 39 crossβtype points
ISO 100β12,800 (expandable to 102,400)
Weatherβsealed magnesium alloy body
300,000βshot shutter rating
Dual DIGIC 4 processors
Even today, these specs hold up surprisingly well. The APSβH sensor β a format Canon no longer uses β offers a unique balance between fullβframe depth and APSβC reach. The result is a distinctive look: crisp detail, excellent colour, and a slightly tighter field of view that works beautifully with telephoto and portrait lenses.
βοΈ 2. Handling & Build: The Feel of a True Flagship
The 1D Mark IV is unapologetically substantial. Itβs heavy, solid, and built like a tool meant for war zones, stadium sidelines, and harsh environments. The integrated grip gives it perfect balance with larger lenses, and the ergonomics are classic Canon: intuitive, tactile, and designed for operation without taking your eye from the viewfinder.
The shutter sound is authoritative β a mechanical confidence that modern mirrorless cameras simply donβt replicate.
This is a camera that feels alive in the hands.
π― 3. Autofocus & Performance
The 45βpoint AF system was cuttingβedge at release and remains highly capable today. Tracking is fast, sticky, and reliable, especially with centreβpoint and expansion modes. For action, wildlife, and reportage, the 1D Mark IV still performs at a professional level.
The 10 fps burst rate is another reminder of its pedigree. Even by modern standards, itβs fast.
π 4. Image Quality: The APSβH Look
The 16βmegapixel APSβH sensor produces files with:
excellent colour reproduction
strong dynamic range for its era
pleasing noise characteristics
a crisp, filmβlike rendering
At low ISO, images are clean and detailed. At high ISO, the grain is organic and surprisingly usable. The sensorβs 1.3x crop gives lenses a slightly tighter field of view, which can be an advantage for portraits and street work.
π 5. The Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM β A Classic Standard Prime
The EF 50mm f/1.4 is one of Canonβs most enduring primes. Lightweight, compact, and optically pleasing, it pairs beautifully with the 1D Mark IV.
Why it works so well on the 1D Mark IV
On APSβH, it behaves like a 65mm equivalent β a perfect βnormalβplusβ focal length.
The f/1.4 aperture gives excellent lowβlight performance.
The rendering is classic Canon: warm, smooth, and flattering.
Bokeh is soft and pleasing, especially for portraits and environmental scenes.
Strengths
Fast aperture
Good sharpness from f/2 onward
Lightweight balance on a heavy body
Affordable and widely available
Character
The 50mm f/1.4 has a slightly dreamy wideβopen look that becomes crisp and modern when stopped down. On the 1D Mark IV, itβs a versatile everyday lens β perfect for street, documentary, and general photography.
π 6. The Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM β The Unsung Portrait Hero
The EF 85mm f/1.8 is one of Canonβs most beloved portrait lenses. Fast, sharp, and beautifully rendered, itβs a lens that consistently punches above its price.
Why it shines on the 1D Mark IV
On APSβH, it becomes a 110mm equivalent β ideal for headshots and tight portraits.
The f/1.8 aperture delivers creamy background separation.
Autofocus is fast and accurate, perfect for candid portraiture.
The lens is lightweight, balancing well with the 1D body.
Strengths
Excellent sharpness
Smooth, natural bokeh
Fast AF
Great for low light
Professional portrait results without the cost of an Lβseries lens
Character
The 85mm f/1.8 has a clean, neutral rendering with just a touch of warmth. Itβs flattering for skin tones and produces images with a classic portrait look β crisp subject, soft background, and beautiful falloff.
π¨ 7. The 1D Mark IV + 50mm + 85mm: A Timeless Trio
Together, these three pieces form a kit that is:
fast
reliable
optically strong
professionally capable
surprisingly affordable today
The 50mm gives you versatility and everyday usability. The 85mm gives you portrait power and compression. The 1D Mark IV gives you speed, durability, and a distinctive rendering.
This combination is ideal for:
portrait photographers
street/documentary shooters
event and wedding photographers
anyone who appreciates the feel of a flagship DSLR
β¨ Conclusion: Old, Not Obsolete
The Canon 1D Mark IV may be from another era, but it remains a formidable camera. Its build quality, autofocus performance, and image rendering still hold up in a world of mirrorless bodies and computational photography.
Paired with the EF 50mm f/1.4 and EF 85mm f/1.8, it becomes a powerful, characterβrich system capable of producing beautiful images with a timeless look.
Some cameras fade into history. The 1D Mark IV endures β not as a relic, but as a reminder of what a true photographic tool feels like.
The Nikkor 85mm f/1.8G is one of those rare lenses that punches far above its weight. Lightweight, sharp, affordable, and optically refined, it has become a favourite among portrait photographers, wedding shooters, and anyone who appreciates the clean, modern rendering of Nikonβs Gβseries primes.
Despite being overshadowed by the more expensive f/1.4G, the 85mm f/1.8G has quietly built a reputation as one of Nikonβs smartest buys β a lens that delivers professionalβgrade results without the professionalβgrade price tag.
Letβs break down what makes it so compelling.
π 1. Build & Handling
The 85mm f/1.8G follows Nikonβs modern Gβseries design philosophy:
Lightweight polycarbonate body
Metal mount
Weather sealing gasket
Large, smooth focus ring
Compact profile
At just 350g, itβs significantly lighter than the 85mm f/1.4G, making it ideal for long portrait sessions or travel. Mounted on a DSLR like the D750, D610, or D850, it feels balanced and nimble.
This is a lens you can carry all day without fatigue.
π 2. Autofocus Performance
The Silent Wave Motor (SWM) delivers:
Fast focusing
Quiet operation
Accurate subject acquisition
Itβs not as blisteringly fast as Nikonβs pro telephotos, but for portraits, events, and general shooting, itβs more than capable. On bodies with strong AF modules (D750, D810, D500), it locks on confidently even in low light.
For video shooters, the AF is smooth and unobtrusive.
π 3. Optical Performance
This is where the 85mm f/1.8G truly shines.
Sharpness
Wide open at f/1.8: impressively sharp in the centre
Stopped down to f/2.8βf/4: razorβsharp across the frame
On highβresolution bodies (D810, D850): holds up extremely well
Many photographers note that it rivals β and sometimes surpasses β the f/1.4G in realβworld sharpness.
Bokeh
The 85mm focal length is naturally flattering for portraits, and the f/1.8G delivers:
Smooth, creamy background blur
Soft transitions
Minimal nervousness
While the f/1.4G has slightly creamier bokeh, the difference is subtle unless youβre pixelβpeeping.
Colour & Contrast
The lens produces:
Clean, neutral colour
Strong microβcontrast
Excellent clarity
It has that modern Nikon βpopβ that works beautifully for skin tones.
Chromatic Aberration
Wide open, you may see some longitudinal CA (green/purple fringing), especially in highβcontrast scenes. Stopped down slightly, it improves dramatically.
Distortion & Vignetting
Distortion: negligible
Vignetting: visible at f/1.8, mostly gone by f/2.8
Both are easily corrected inβcamera or in post.
π 4. RealβWorld Use Cases
Portraits
This is the lensβs natural habitat. It excels at:
Headshots
Halfβbody portraits
Environmental portraits
Candid moments
The compression and bokeh create flattering, dimensional images.
Events & Weddings
Lightweight, fast, and sharp β perfect for:
Speeches
Reactions
Lowβlight ceremony shots
Candid guest portraits
Street & Documentary
Though 85mm is long for street, itβs excellent for:
Isolating subjects
Capturing moments from a respectful distance
Creating cinematic, layered compositions
Video
The smooth focus ring and clean rendering make it a solid choice for interviews and controlled setups.
π 5. 85mm f/1.8G vs 85mm f/1.4G
The f/1.4G is:
Heavier
More expensive
Slightly creamier bokeh
Better built
But the f/1.8G is:
Sharper in many situations
Faster to focus
Much lighter
Far more affordable
Better value for most photographers
Unless you specifically need the f/1.4 look, the f/1.8G is the smarter buy.
π 6. Who Is This Lens For?
Ideal for:
Portrait photographers
Wedding shooters
DSLR users wanting a lightweight telephoto prime
Anyone building a primeβbased kit
Photographers who value sharpness and clean rendering
Less ideal for:
Sports/action (AF is good, but not proβtelephoto fast)
Tight indoor spaces (85mm can feel long)
β¨ Conclusion: A Modern Nikon Classic
The Nikkor 85mm f/1.8G is one of Nikonβs most capable and bestβvalue primes. It offers:
Professionalβgrade sharpness
Beautiful bokeh
Lightweight handling
Reliable autofocus
Excellent performance on both FX and DX bodies
Itβs the kind of lens that quietly becomes a favourite β not because itβs flashy, but because it delivers consistently beautiful images with minimal fuss.
Verdict: A mustβhave prime for Nikon DSLR shooters who want portraitβgrade performance without the portraitβgrade price.
Photographers joke about βGASβ β Gear Acquisition Syndrome β as if itβs a harmless quirk. But beneath the humour sits a real question: Why do so many photographers feel compelled to collect gear, even when they already have enough to make great images?
Is it addiction? Is it passion? Is it identity? Or is it something deeper β a way of relating to the world?
Letβs explore this with honesty and nuance.
π§ 1. The Psychology Behind Gear Desire
Gear collecting taps into several powerful psychological mechanisms. None of them are inherently unhealthy β but they can become compulsive if left unchecked.
Dopamine and anticipation
The excitement isnβt in the owning β itβs in the anticipation. The research is clear: dopamine spikes when we imagine possibilities, not when we achieve them.
A new lens promises:
a new way of seeing
a new creative direction
a new version of ourselves
Thatβs intoxicating.
Identity and selfβexpression
For many photographers, gear is part of their creative identity. A Fuji XβPro3 isnβt just a camera β itβs a statement about how you see the world. A Nikon D300S isnβt just a tool β itβs a connection to a certain era of photography.
Collecting becomes a way of curating your creative self.
Craftsmanship and tactile pleasure
Some gear simply feels good. Metal dials, aperture rings, optical glass β these things have presence. Handling them is satisfying in a way thatβs hard to explain to nonβphotographers.
This isnβt addiction. Itβs appreciation.
πΈ 2. When Collecting Becomes a Creative Practice
For many photographers, collecting gear is part of the craft itself.
Each tool shapes vision
A 20mm lens forces you to see differently than a 50mm. A rangefinder body changes your rhythm compared to a DSLR. A fast prime encourages intimacy; a telephoto encourages distance.
Collecting becomes a way of exploring different visual philosophies.
Gear as inspiration
Sometimes a new camera or lens unlocks a creative block. Not because itβs βbetter,β but because itβs different. It nudges you into new territory.
Historical and emotional connection
Older gear carries stories. A Nikon D2Hs isnβt just a camera β itβs a piece of photographic history. Owning it connects you to the lineage of the craft.
This is collecting as creative archaeology.
β οΈ 3. When It Starts to Look Like Addiction
There are moments when gear collecting crosses into unhealthy territory.
Signs include:
buying gear instead of making photographs
feeling restless or empty without the βnext purchaseβ
spending beyond your means
hiding purchases or feeling guilt
chasing perfection through equipment rather than practice
These patterns mirror addictive behaviour β not because of the gear, but because of the emotional loop behind it.
But even then, the root cause is rarely the gear itself. Itβs usually stress, boredom, loneliness, or a need for control.
π± 4. The Healthy Version of Gear Collecting
Most photographers fall into this category β passionate, curious, and intentional.
Healthy collecting looks like:
buying gear that genuinely supports your creative goals
enjoying the craftsmanship and history
rotating gear in and out of your kit
using what you own
feeling joy, not pressure
In this form, collecting is no more βaddictiveβ than a musician owning multiple guitars or a painter collecting brushes.
Itβs part of the craft.
⨠5. So⦠Is It Truly an Addiction?
In most cases, no. Itβs a mix of:
passion
curiosity
identity
nostalgia
craftsmanship appreciation
the search for creative spark
But it can become addictive if it replaces the act of photographing or becomes a coping mechanism rather than a creative one.
The key is awareness. If collecting enriches your creative life, itβs a gift. If it replaces your creative life, it becomes a trap.
π― Final Thought
Gear collecting is rarely about the gear. Itβs about what the gear represents: possibility, identity, craftsmanship, memory, and the desire to see the world differently.
When approached with intention, itβs not an addiction β itβs a form of creative expression in its own right. I have loads of gear, some of which I use on a daily basis, some less often and some rarely. I never buy items that I cannot afford and usually have a specific need.
Nikon D2Hs (2005): A professional DX DSLR with a 4.1MP sensor, designed for speed, durability, and press work. It was the successor to the D2H, optimized for sports and photojournalism.
Sigma 20mm f/1.8 EX DG: One of the fastest wideβangle primes available, offering shallow depth of field and strong lowβlight performance at a dramatic focal length.
β Strengths
πΈ Nikon D2Hs Body
Speed: 8 frames per second continuous shooting β excellent for action and reportage.
Autofocus: 11βpoint MultiβCAM 2000 AF system, fast and reliable for its era.
Build quality: Magnesium alloy, weatherβsealed, designed for professional abuse.
Ergonomics: Proβstyle controls, dual command dials, and a large optical viewfinder.
Battery life: ENβEL4 battery delivers thousands of shots per charge.
βοΈ Sigma 20mm f/1.8 Lens
Wide aperture: f/1.8 is unusually fast for a wideβangle, enabling shallow depth of field and lowβlight shooting.
Perspective: On DX (D2Hs crop factor 1.5x), it becomes ~30mm equivalent β versatile for street, documentary, and environmental portraiture.
Creative rendering: Strong subject isolation at close distances, with dramatic wideβangle compression.
Value: Affordable compared to Nikonβs own fast wide primes.
β Weaknesses
β οΈ Nikon D2Hs Body
Resolution: 4.1MP is limiting for cropping and large prints. Files are clean but small.
ISO performance: Usable up to ISO 800β1600, but noisy compared to modern sensors.
Weight: At ~1.2kg with battery, itβs heavy for long shoots.
LCD: Small, lowβresolution rear screen makes reviewing images difficult.
Legacy limitations: No video, no modern connectivity (WiβFi, GPS).
π§ Sigma 20mm f/1.8 Lens
Size & weight: Large and heavy for a prime, not discreet.
AF performance: Slower and noisier than Nikon AFβS lenses.
Optical flaws: Wide open, prone to softness, vignetting, and chromatic aberration.
Flare resistance: Weak coatings β struggles with strong backlight.
βοΈ Combined Use Case
Context
Strengths
Weaknesses
Street
Fast AF, rugged body, versatile 30mm equivalent
Heavy combo, limited resolution
Documentary
Wide perspective, shallow DOF at f/1.8
Noisy AF, flare issues
Action
8 fps burst, pro handling
4.1MP limits cropping flexibility
Lowβlight
f/1.8 aperture helps
Sensor noise above ISO 800
β¨ Conclusion
The Nikon D2Hs + Sigma 20mm f/1.8 is a pairing full of character. The D2Hs delivers speed, durability, and reliability β perfect for photojournalists of its era β while the Sigma 20mm adds creative flexibility with its unusually fast aperture. Together, they excel in street, documentary, and action work, though they are limited by low resolution, heavy weight, and optical quirks.
Verdict:A rugged pro body and a quirky wide prime β imperfect by modern standards, but capable of distinctive, characterful images when used deliberately.
Lens type: Manual/AF telephoto prime, Nikon F mount
Focal length: 100mm (effective 150mm on D300S due to 1.5x crop)
Aperture: f/2βf/16, 9-blade diaphragm for smooth bokeh
Build quality: Lightweight plastic barrel, metal mount β feels budget but usable
Focus ring: Smooth but lacks tactile precision; not ideal for manual focus critical work
β Strengths
πΈ On the D300S
Effective 150mm reach: Excellent for tight portraits, isolating subjects, and compressing backgrounds
Wide aperture: f/2 allows shallow depth of field and low-light shooting
Bokeh: Surprisingly smooth for the price β good subject-background separation
Color & contrast: Decent rendering, especially when stopped down to f/2.8βf/4
Compatibility: Fully mounts and functions on the D300S, including autofocus
π° Value
Price point: Often under $150 β one of the cheapest telephoto primes available
Entry-level telephoto: Great for photographers exploring longer focal lengths without investing in Nikonβs 105mm or 135mm primes
β Limitations
β οΈ Autofocus
Inconsistent AF: Can hunt or miss focus, especially in low light or on older bodies like the D300S
Noisy motor: Audible whirring during focus β not ideal for video or quiet environments
No internal focusing: Front element rotates, complicating use with polarizers
π§ Optical Performance
Wide open softness: f/2 is usable but not tack-sharp; improves at f/2.8 and beyond
Chromatic aberration: Visible in high-contrast edges, especially wide open
Flare resistance: Weak coatings β prone to ghosting and flare in backlit scenes
π°οΈ D300S Constraints
12MP resolution: Limits cropping flexibility β lens flaws are less visible but detail is capped
No live view AF: Manual focus is harder without magnified preview
DX crop factor: You lose the βclassic 100mmβ feel β becomes more compressed, like a 150mm
βοΈ Summary Table
Feature
Yongnuo 100mm f/2 on D300S
Effective focal length
150mm (DX crop)
Autofocus
Functional but unreliable
Bokeh
Smooth, creamy at f/2
Sharpness
Soft wide open, better at f/2.8βf/4
Build
Lightweight, budget feel
Value
High β telephoto reach under $150
Best use
Portraits, detail shots, compressed street scenes
Limitations
AF inconsistency, flare, chromatic aberration
Sources: Ian Kydd Millerβs review, DPReview forums
β¨ Conclusion
The Yongnuo 100mm f/2 is a quirky but capable budget telephoto prime. On the Nikon D300S, it delivers creamy bokeh and tight framing ideal for portraits and compressed street scenes. Autofocus and optical quirks require patience, but for the price, itβs a compelling tool β especially if you embrace its limitations and shoot deliberately.
Verdict:A budget telephoto with character β imperfect but rewarding when paired with the D300Sβs rugged charm. (Not a bad lens for the $50 I paid for it, needs to be used with a little care, AF can be a little haphazard).